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From: j...@ut-sally.UUCP (John Quarterman)
Newsgroups: mod.std.unix
Subject: curses, terminfo, and termcap
Message-ID: <2257@ut-sally.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 4-Jul-85 11:52:35 EDT
Article-I.D.: ut-sally.2257
Posted: Thu Jul 4 11:52:35 1985
Date-Received: Fri, 5-Jul-85 00:33:28 EDT
Organization: U. Texas CS Dept., Austin, Texas
Lines: 69
Approved: j...@ut-sally.UUCP
From: John Quarterman (moderator) <ut-sally!std-unix>
Topic: curses, terminfo, and termcap
The moderated newsgroup mod.std.unix is for discussions of UNIX standards,
in particular of the draft standard in progress by the IEEE P1003
"UNIX Standards" Committee.
Please mail submissions to the newsgroup to: ut-sally!std-unix
Mail to this address will be posted to mod.std.unix unless it is
redundant or otherwise inappropriate, when I will reply by mail
with suggestions on where else it might be appropriate.
Please mail comments about the newsgroup to: ut-sally!std-unix-request
Mail to this address will not be posted to mod.std.unix unless explicit
permission is included in the mail, though I may reply with a request
for permission to post. Mail to ut-sally!jsq regarding mod.std.unix
is treated like mail to ut-sally!std-unix-request.
It is possible to reach ut-sally through ihnp4, seismo, gatech, and harvard,
among other UUCP connections, and as ut-sally.ARPA through the ARPA Internet
or CSNET. -mod
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Date: Tue, 2 Jul 85 15:49:39 CDT
From: Stan Barber <neuro1!...@RICE.ARPA>
Subject: curses
Apparently-To: std-u...@ut-sally.arpa
With the posting of the game "Battleship" in net.sources.games recently
came the realization that curses is not the same on SYSVr2 and BSD.
After reading the instructions on SYSVr2, I think is is more powerful than
the Ken Arnold original. It also seems upward compartable (for the most
part) with Ken Arnold.
I am not sure if curses is considered part of the "standard", but would
like to see some discussion of this as well as the larger issure of
termcap vs. terminfo format for terminal capabilities.
Stan
[
There has been recent discussion of all these things in net.unix.
The System V Release 2 curses has apparently been extensively modified
by Mark Horton, to do input translation, among other things. He also
appears to be largely responsible for terminfo.
The world seems to be moving from termcap to terminfo (for good reason,
I think). There is a public domain termcap to terminfo translator.
From: rob...@gitpyr.UUCP (Robert Viduya)
Newsgroups: net.sources
Subject: termcap to terminfo translator
Message-ID: <8...@gitpyr.UUCP>
Date: 30 Jan 85 20:42:01 GMT
Organization: Georgia Tech, Atlanta
A public domain version of curses and terminfo by Pavel Curtis of
Cornell University was posted to mod.sources in December 1984.
It appears to include most of the System V Release 2 innovations.
I seem to recall that terminfo is supposed to be supplied with 4.3BSD,
perhaps as user contributed software, but I don't remember for sure.
-mod ]
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--
John Quarterman, j...@ut-sally.ARPA, {ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!jsq
Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
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Path: utzoo!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!ut-sally!jsq
From: j...@ut-sally.UUCP (John Quarterman)
Newsgroups: mod.std.unix
Subject: Re: curses, terminfo, and termcap
Message-ID: <2294@ut-sally.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 8-Jul-85 12:33:25 EDT
Article-I.D.: ut-sally.2294
Posted: Mon Jul 8 12:33:25 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 8-Jul-85 22:04:55 EDT
References: <2257@ut-sally.UUCP>
Reply-To: std-unix-request@ut-sally
Organization: U. Texas CS Dept., Austin, Texas
Lines: 70
Approved: j...@ut-sally.UUCP
From: John Quarterman (moderator) <ut-sally!std-unix>
Topic: curses, terminfo, and termcap
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 6 Jul 85 01:06:24 edt
From: cbosgd.ATT!mark@seismo (Mark Horton)
To: std-u...@ut-sally.arpa
Subject: curses as part of the standard
The System V curses was intended to be mostly upward compatible with
Ken Arnold's version (the one in 4BSD). It doesn't include a couple
of nonportable features, such as the 2 letter variables in curses.h
and the 4BSD way of getting at your erase character; there are portable
ways of doing this provided.
What I think is important about curses is not the code that implements
it (although this code was hard and it shouldn't have to be done more
than once) but the interface between the program and the package.
Curses is intended as a way to write portable screen oriented applications.
There are a number of functions in curses to enhance portability of the
application, some of which have little to do with screen handling but
seem to be needed by many screen oriented programs. A curses application
should not care whether it's running on System V, 4.2BSD, or MS DOS.
Simpler implementations of curses that work on a PC make sense. I know
of two implementations for MS DOS and one for QNX. I also know of two
for UNIX that don't do optimization of handle braindamaged terminals, but
assume 9600 baud and an ordinary (or specific) terminal.
I personally would like to see curses (or some appripriate subset) become
part of the C standard, along with Standard I/O. However, it appears that
the committee is not planning to do this. Lacking this, I would like to
see it become part of a UNIX standard.
Mark Horton
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Date: Mon, 8 Jul 85 10:15:56 cdt
From: John Quarterman (moderator) <j...@ut-sally.ARPA>
To: std-unix
Subject: public domain curses and terminfo
While I agree with Mark Horton that it shouldn't be necessary to
implement curses more than once, it appears that somebody else has also
done it. I've gotten a couple of requests for more information on the
posting of it to mod.sources last November. The first posting
contained this signature:
Pavel Curtis
Computer Science Dept.
405 Upson Hall
Cornell University
Ithaca, NY 14853
Ph- (607) 256-4934
decvax!cornell!pavel (UUCP)
Pavel.Cornell@Udel-Relay (ARPA)
The moderator of mod.sources is genrad!john, who would know better
than I what arrangements have been made for access to mod.sources archives.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
John Quarterman, UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,harvard,gatech}!ut-sally!jsq
ARPA Internet and CSNET: j...@ut-sally.ARPA, soon to be j...@sally.UTEXAS.EDU
Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/5/84; site mcc-db.UUCP
Path: utzoo!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!ut-sally!mcc-db!jbc
From: j...@mcc-db.UUCP (John B. Chambers)
Newsgroups: mod.std.unix
Subject: Re: curses, terminfo, and termcap
Message-ID: <247@mcc-db.UUCP>
Date: Sun, 14-Jul-85 19:56:29 EDT
Article-I.D.: mcc-db.247
Posted: Sun Jul 14 19:56:29 1985
Date-Received: Mon, 15-Jul-85 10:05:28 EDT
References: <2257@ut-sally.UUCP>, <2294@ut-sally.UUCP>
Reply-To: std-unix-request@ut-sally
Organization: MCC (Austin, TX)
Lines: 46
Approved: j...@mcc-db.UUCP
From: John Chambers (guest moderator) <ut-sally!std-unix>
Topic: curses, terminfo, termcap
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10 Jul 85 00:15:09 CDT (Wed)
From: ihnp4!utzoo!he...@ut-sally.ARPA
Subject: Re: curses, terminfo, and termcap
> What I think is important about curses is not the code that implements
> it (although this code was hard and it shouldn't have to be done more
> than once) but the interface between the program and the package.
> Curses is intended as a way to write portable screen oriented applications.
> ...
> I personally would like to see curses (or some appripriate subset) become
> part of the C standard, along with Standard I/O. However, it appears that
> the committee is not planning to do this. Lacking this, I would like to
> see it become part of a UNIX standard.
One might argue (and on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays I would) that a
standard screen-handling package ought to be oriented towards display of
text rather than video games. Unless I have missed something -- I am not
all that familiar with curses -- when I insert a line in the middle of my
"screen", curses essentially has to rediscover this by comparing characters.
This seems silly; surely higher-level primitives would be better for most
situations. (Rogue is a different story, of course.)
Something like the "FastAlpha" package described by HP a couple of Usenixes
ago would be a much better match to text-oriented screen handling, which I
would guess describes the majority of non-game curses applications. Alas,
curses is already pretty well established; it may be too late to change.
Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology
{allegra,ihnp4,linus,decvax}!utzoo!henry
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--
John B. Chambers, Microelectronics and Computer Technology Corp., Austin, TX
{ihnp4,seismo,ctvax}!ut-sally!mcc-db!jbc, j...@ut-sally.ARPA, chamb...@mcc.ARPA
Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
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Path: utzoo!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!ut-sally!jsq
From: j...@ut-sally.UUCP (John Quarterman)
Newsgroups: mod.std.unix
Subject: Re: curses, terminfo, and termcap
Message-ID: <2366@ut-sally.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 16-Jul-85 15:43:50 EDT
Article-I.D.: ut-sally.2366
Posted: Tue Jul 16 15:43:50 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 17-Jul-85 02:35:43 EDT
References: <2257@ut-sally.UUCP> <2294@ut-sally.UUCP> <247@mcc-db.UUCP>
Reply-To: std-unix@ut-sally
Organization: U. Texas CS Dept., Austin, Texas
Lines: 23
Approved: j...@ut-sally.UUCP
Summary: it's too big to post to this newsgroup or to mail
From: John Quarterman (moderator) <j...@ut-sally.UUCP>
Several people have asked by mail if I could repost the public domain terminfo
and curses or mail it to them. Unfortunately, I cannot: it's much too big
to post to a discussion newsgroup like this, or to mail (at least from
ut-sally: our phone bills are rather amazing already). The best thing
to do is probably to write to the moderator of mod.sources <genrad!john>
and see what arrangements have been made about getting back issues of
mod.sources.
The moderated newsgroup mod.std.unix is for discussions of UNIX standards,
in particular of the draft standard in progress by the IEEE P1003
"UNIX Standards" Committee.
Submissions to the newsgroup to: ut-sally!std-unix
Comments about the newsgroup to: ut-sally!std-unix-request
Permission to post to the newsgroup is assumed for mail to the former address,
but not for mail to the latter address, nor for mail to my personal addresses.
--
John Quarterman, UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,harvard,gatech}!ut-sally!jsq
ARPA Internet and CSNET: j...@ut-sally.ARPA, soon to be j...@sally.UTEXAS.EDU
Relay-Version: version B 2.10 5/3/83; site utzoo.UUCP
Posting-Version: version B 2.10.2 9/18/84; site ut-sally.UUCP
Path: utzoo!decvax!genrad!panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!ut-sally!jsq
From: j...@ut-sally.UUCP (John Quarterman)
Newsgroups: mod.std.unix
Subject: Re: curses, terminfo, and termcap
Message-ID: <2376@ut-sally.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 17-Jul-85 10:02:14 EDT
Article-I.D.: ut-sally.2376
Posted: Wed Jul 17 10:02:14 1985
Date-Received: Wed, 17-Jul-85 16:05:23 EDT
References: <2257@ut-sally.UUCP> <2294@ut-sally.UUCP> <247@mcc-db.UUCP> <2366@ut-sally.UUCP>
Reply-To: j...@ut-sally.UUCP (John Quarterman)
Organization: U. Texas CS Dept., Austin, Texas
Lines: 73
Approved: j...@ut-sally.UUCP
Summary: how to get Pavel Curtis' implementation
From: John Quarterman (moderator) <std-unix-request@ut-sally>
Topic: curses, terminfo, and termcap
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: harvard!panda!genrad!john (John P. Nelson)
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 85 09:23:12 edt
To: panda!talcott!harvard!seismo!ut-sally!jsq
Subject: Re: curses, terminfo, and termcap
In-Reply-To: <2366@ut-sally.UUCP>
References: <2257@ut-sally.UUCP> <2294@ut-sally.UUCP> <247@mcc-db.UUCP>
Organization: GenRad, Inc., Bolton, Mass.
Please post this to mod.std.unix, since you have recommended that your
readership contact me directly.
John P. Nelson (decvax!genrad!john) [moderator, mod.sources]
First, if you have access to any of the "standard" UNIX versions of curses,
you have got a better version than this one. About the only thing that
recommends Pavel Curtis' version of curses is that it is public domain.
(Of course, that is pretty significant!) The terminfo implementation seems
to fairly solid, however.
For large distributions (such as the Pavel Curtis' terminfo/curses - 11 shar
format modules plus one more with updates) I try to discourage direct mailing
especially when the target site is several uucp hops away. That generally
leaves two alternatives: 1. Send a tape in a self-addressed, stamped mailer.
I will put the distribution onto tape in tar, 1600 bpi format. If you do
this, then make sure you include a note describing what you want put onto the
tape (Public Domain Terminfo/Curses package) 2. I can send you the info for
our site's "sources" uucp login. This uucp login is limited to transferring
to and from a single "sources" directory. I am not making this login public
knowledge, because we cannot support any large level of traffic.
I am willing to entertain other suggestions.
John P. Nelson (decvax!genrad!john) [moderator, mod.sources]
GenRad M.S. 96
37 Great Road
Bolton, MA 01740
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jul 85 08:31:57 cdt
From: j...@ut-sally.ARPA (John Quarterman)
Subject: Re: PD terminfo, curses, etc.
If you are on the ARPA Internet, you can get it by anonymous FTP
(login anonymous, password guest) from ut-sally.ARPA from the directory
~ftp/pub/curses, where the files named 1 through 11 correspond to the
pieces posted on mod.sources. There doesn't seem to be a standard ARPA
Internet repository for mod.sources.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The moderated newsgroup mod.std.unix is for discussions of UNIX standards,
in particular of the draft standard in progress by the IEEE P1003
"UNIX Standards" Committee.
Submissions to the newsgroup to: ut-sally!std-unix
Comments about the newsgroup to: ut-sally!std-unix-request
Permission to post to the newsgroup is assumed for mail to the former address,
but not for mail to the latter address, nor for mail to my personal addresses.
The newsgroup is gatewayed to an ARPA Internet mailing list, accessible as
std-u...@ut-sally.ARPA or std-unix-requ...@ut-sally.ARPA.
--
John Quarterman, UUCP: {ihnp4,seismo,harvard,gatech}!ut-sally!jsq
ARPA Internet and CSNET: j...@ut-sally.ARPA, soon to be j...@sally.UTEXAS.EDU