Return-Path: < owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG> Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA27951 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:21:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA27944 for < advocacy@freebsd.org>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:21:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA00713 for < advocacy@freebsd.org>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 08:21:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: On advocating FreeBSD and the Halloween memo... Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 08:21:56 -0800 Message-ID: <709.910110116@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" < jkh@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG [ caution - this is a bit long. Lots of points here I've been wanting to cover for awhile and now seems as good a time as any.. ] OK, so we've all seen this latest bit of Linux leaping about and shouting from the rooftops and some of us have even gone "agh!" and run around a bit ourselves, but now that we've all hopefully calmed down again I'd like to say a few words about this and the state of FreeBSD advocacy in general. First off, just to cover the Halloween memo in brief, yes it appears to be genuinely from Microsoft and yes, it appears to be genuinely full of statements culled from various Linux evangelists who feel no pangs at making blatantly false pronouncements like "Linux is the only OS experiencing growth" or "Linux is the only contender for the x86 platform." These types of statements are pure hooey, of course, and FreeBSD is currently doing better than it has at any previous point in its history. Our releases are starting to finally hit their stride, it seems (and try to remember back to the days when it was more like: "My god! We did it! A release!"), and our rate of innovation and self- improvement hasn't been higher since the 2.0 days - it's very encouraging to see that we can spur ourselves to such heights of productivity *without* legal injunctions staring us in the face! :-) Second, we have to keep sight of the fact that none of this is particularly new or even interesting. We know that Linux is the current poster child of the press and we also know about the press's irritating predilection for focusing on one and only one champion rather than looking more in depth at the situation. We can yell and scream all we like, but we're not going to change the fact that for many journalists investigating "Open Source", Linux is the first and possibly only thing they're going to look at. It simply has the right sized hype-bubble surrounding it where we do not. We also have to accept the fact that ISVs are going to target their products at the much more obvious Linux market and try to strike deals with it, going "FreeBSD? What's that?" when asked about a native port. The same goes for investment, selling shares in Red Hat, Inc., etc. Money always goes after the visible markets first. What you have to ask yourselves, looking at the dynamics of this situation as dispassionately as possible, is whether all of this is necessarily as bad a thing as some of the gloom-n-doomers would have us believe. Looking at only the superficial indicators, it's easy to say that "Linux is winning and we're losing", pointing to the stacks of Linux books and magazines in the bookstores, the Clinton transcripts where he mentions Linux, the Goodyear blimp circling overhead with Linus's smiling face shining from it, etc etc. It's especially easy to say that when you hold Linux and FreeBSD in your mind as equivalent products, started at the same time and with the same overall development mentality. The fact of the matter is that Linux and FreeBSD are NOT equivalent products with identical user and developer communities surrounding them, however. We've *always* been lower key about things, preferring to quietly focus on the business of steadily turning out quality products to only moderate fanfare. It's no use screaming for teams of FreeBSD fan dancers to come out and start singing the praises of FreeBSD in full 4-part hyperbole with some grinning, cigar-chomping promoter standing in the background - that's just not us. The nay-sayers will also say that "this not being us" will surely be our downfall since you gotta sing and dance now if you want to be noticed, but I'm really not so sure about that. To my way of thinking, we have our style and we have our niche and they're both respectable in their own way. Not everyone buys toilet paper because a team of singing rabbits (to paraphrase the great Rod Serling) suggested it on television, and some people DO react positively to the somewhat less superficial attributes of quality, consistency and a focus on the technology rather than on standing in front of the cameras and saying things like "open source validates the concept of a basic human sociological tropism towards cooperation and the free and open exchange of .." to some vapid blond on Technology Week. That kind of approach might also get all the sound bites this week, but remember the old "15 minutes of fame" effect and the fact that the press is going to get bored with Linux eventually and go off in search of other things they don't understand to dissect. When that inevitably happens, it's going to be back to quality and those groups who remained true to their basic operating principles and didn't get sucked in and destroyed by excessive growth or hype. The opportunities for wandering off and getting lost in the woods in pursuit of some bright and shiny object have never been higher than they are now, and somebody's bound to panic and go off and do something stupid in an effort to differentiate themselves. I don't think we have any need to panic at all and should simply keep doing what we're doing and try to do it as best we can. I'm not saying that there's no room for improvement, and some alliances *are* being made with various artist/marketing types whom we think can help us get the attention we deserve, but it's not the same as saying that we're going to drop everything and go play Linux's game now. That would be the wrong move and I can only point to the history of BSD itself when searching for good examples of technologies which have remained viable long after "losing" a war to a competitor. BSD "lost" to SYSV over a decade ago, but did that kill it? Quite apparently not and it appears to be doing better today than it ever did even back in its heyday, when it ran on a large collection of VAXes but hardly any of the commodity (68K) hardware at all (you had to buy an obscure 32016 based machine if you wanted to run BSD at home :-). The situation today is vastly improved by comparison and most people don't even stop to think about that. In any case, I didn't mean this posting as a fluffy "we're fine!" sorta thing, though I do think that people sometimes lose sight of our own growth rate and notable successes when furrowing their brows over the latest Linux PR victory, I do have a summary of points I think we can and should improve: 1. Keep pushing the magazine articles out. These seem to be easier for people than books and I've largely given up on trying to incite a FreeBSD book to happen - I guess that will just occur in its own good time. Walnut Creek CDROM is still paying a bounty for magazine articles (matching funds for your fee) and has enabled more than one person to buy a new machine for the price of one weekend's writing for a good cause. Pick a target publication and go for it, folks! I've done about 3 of these so far (maybe more, I forget :) and can say that it's not that hard. You generate a simple article outline and you submit it to the editor along with your proposal for what you're trying to accomplish with the article (just a paragraph or two of text, not a thesis). If they're interested, they'll send you back details on how long they want the article to be (generally 500-1000 words) and how much they're willing to pay. When they pay, send us a photocopy/FAX of your royalty check and we'll pay too. It's that simple, and it good for FreeBSD to appear in print like this since it reaches outside the somewhat closed audience of the mailing lists. 2. Look at Linux as a door opener, not a threat. I mean this, folks, even you rabid Linux haters out there. Consider very carefully the fact that if customer A needs a PC to do server job B, customer A is going to do one of four things: A) Buy NT B) Buy a commercial Unix C) Buy Linux D) Buy *BSD Those really are about the only 4 options for building a department fileserver or gateway box with cheap, commodity hardware (we'll assume the people who don't want cheap buy Cisco gear, Suns and NetApp filers anyway) and let's look at them in turn: A) If they buy NT, you can pretty much write them off. By the time they realize what they've gotten themselves into, the investment (or embarrassment) is generally too great to back out of anyway and it's actually very few IS shops that seem to claw their way back from NT and install a free OS instead. Sure, you hear widely trumpeted stories whenever some large ISP does make it back from NT, but its very rareness is what makes it something to trumpet about. NT is Darth Vader here and we must fear his control of the dark side (marketing) and the fact that "everybody knows NT" when the issue of personnel comes up with most pointy-haired managers. B) Is a much better option since at least the customer has accepted Unix as their savior and can potentially be won over at some point by OSS, but the fact that they chose a commercial Unix probably also means that they have deep-seated needs for tech support or inter-operability with other parts of the IS shop and you'll probably have to work on them for awhile to win them over. C) Here now we've at least accomplished two things: We've got the customer admitting that they want Unix and that they want a free Unix. Furthermore, they've chosen a solution which we think we can beat in all the taste tests if we can just get the CD in front of their faces. All in all, this has got to be the easiest conversion of the three and a definite win if their only other options were A or B. D) Yay! Of course we like this one, but if it's not FreeBSD then we still have a bit of a conversion job to do and it might even require something like a SPARC port to be able to offer the same cross-platform inter-operability that the user has chosen the other *BSD for. It's something to think about, and certainly no better than the Linux scenario in some ways (again, if you're just thinking about this from the pure, mercenary "how do we get more FreeBSD users" perspective). 3. Hold your advocacy to a higher standard, and by this I mean that if we're to weather this whole PR blitz period with our reputation for being "the calm and level-headed ones" intact, we can't stoop to the level of some Linux advocates when trying to make short-term gains against their PR blitzes. Sometimes you just have to be Gandi. When the press have gone away, believe me, people will remember which groups stuck to their guns and didn't compromise their identities or ideals and which went sort of nuts and participated in a few raping and pillaging sessions. I'd far rather be the group still standing there when the smoke clears going "Yup, we're still here and still doing good software without the fanfare or fancy costumes. Have a look!" To put it another way: If FreeBSD were a respected musical entertainer, I would want her to be the one who stuck to doing the kind of music she liked and always did it well rather than horrifying us during the disco years by suddenly putting on spandex pants and lip-syncing to formulaic, song-factory material or shrieking out heavy-metal lyrics in heavy makeup with Axel Rose 10 years later. :-) Sometimes the price of "success" is too high. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
Return-Path: < owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG> Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA23383 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:47:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from shale.csir.co.za (shale.csir.co.za [146.64.46.5]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA23378 for < advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 21:47:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from reg@shale.csir.co.za) Received: (from reg@localhost) by shale.csir.co.za (8.9.1/8.9.1) id XAA08312; Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:49:34 +0200 (SAT) (envelope-from reg) Message-ID: <19981103234933.A19042@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Tue, 3 Nov 1998 23:49:33 +0200 From: Jeremy Lea < reg@shale.csir.co.za> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" < jkh@time.cdrom.com>, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: On advocating FreeBSD and the Halloween memo... References: <709.910110116@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.93.2i In-Reply-To: <709.910110116@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Tue, Nov 03, 1998 at 08:21:56AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, On Tue, Nov 03, 1998 at 08:21:56AM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > First off, just to cover the Halloween memo in brief, yes it appears > to be genuinely from Microsoft and yes, it appears to be genuinely > full of statements culled from various Linux evangelists who feel no > pangs at making blatantly false pronouncements like "Linux is the only > OS experiencing growth" or "Linux is the only contender for the x86 > platform." These types of statements are pure hooey, of course, and > FreeBSD is currently doing better than it has at any previous point in > its history. Something that really concerns me is the Linux advocates myth, perpetuated by this memo, that FreeBSD is a closed development project. We all know this is untrue, and that in fact, we have a more open model than the Linux kernel, since we can (and frequently do ;) have conflicts about the correctness of checkins. This stems from the mantle of cathedral style development forced upon us by ESR and is something that needs active fighting IMHO. An observation: How come the cathedral has no god, but the bazaar seems to have a shrine at every corner? Bow to the penguin, -Jeremy -- | "In this world of temptation, I will stand for what is right. --+-- With a heart of salvation, I will hold up the light. | If I live or if I die, if I laugh or if I cry, | in this world of temptation, I will stand." -Pam Thum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
Return-Path: < owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG> Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA02497 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:33:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA02492 for < advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:33:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id GAA05459; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 06:31:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Jeremy Lea < reg@shale.csir.co.za> cc: advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: On advocating FreeBSD and the Halloween memo... In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 03 Nov 1998 23:49:33 +0200." <19981103234933.A19042@shale.csir.co.za> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 06:31:42 -0800 Message-ID: <5456.910189902@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" < jkh@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Something that really concerns me is the Linux advocates myth, > perpetuated by this memo, that FreeBSD is a closed development project. For as long as it's up, please point anyone suffering from this myth at: http://www.performance-computing.com/features/9810of1.shtml Not blowing my own horn here, but I did cover this exact topic in my article. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
Return-Path: < owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG> Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id OAA20420 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:36:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA20220 for < advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 14:35:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA07954; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:41:07 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981104214106.45111@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 21:41:06 +0000 From: Nik Clayton < nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk> To: Jeremy Lea < reg@shale.csir.co.za>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" < jkh@time.cdrom.com>, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: On advocating FreeBSD and the Halloween memo... References: <709.910110116@time.cdrom.com> <19981103234933.A19042@shale.csir.co.za> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981103234933.A19042@shale.csir.co.za>; from Jeremy Lea on Tue, Nov 03, 1998 at 11:49:33PM +0200 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Nov 03, 1998 at 11:49:33PM +0200, Jeremy Lea wrote: > Something that really concerns me is the Linux advocates myth, > perpetuated by this memo, that FreeBSD is a closed development project. This is message I've been meaning to send out, but I haven't finished it, and other things have got in the way. Should anyone want to pick this up and run with it, please feel free; ========================================================================== I'm thinking of putting together a 'FreeBSD Myths' web page, either on my own site or as part of the FreeBSD site, to dispell some of the myths about FreeBSD, particularly in relation to other OS's. This is prompted (partly) by yet another posting on SlashDot from someone proclaiming that Linux follows the Bazaar development model, while FreeBSD is strictly Cathedral. I think there are a number of these myths out there, and a page or two countering them is probably a good thing. Possibly this might be better served as a 'Myths' section in the FAQ, but I haven't got that far yet. So I'm after myths about FreeBSD. Like the following. Myth: FreeBSD's development model is 'closed'. Only a select few can contribute code. It's 'Cathedral' style, where Linux follows the 'Bazaar' model. Reality: FreeBSD's development model is probably *more* Bazaar than Linux's. * The current, bleeding edge, source code for FreeBSD is available for anyone to download, 24 hours a day. There's no need to wait for someone to roll a release every few days. You can use this source code in conjunction with an existing system to stay up to date. * A snapshot is automatically generated every 24 hours. This snapshot can be installed in the same way as you would install every other released version of FreeBSD. * The CVS tree, with *all* versions of *every* file in the FreeBSD codebase is available for anyone to download, 24 hours a day. * Anyone can submit patches, bug reports, documentation, and so on, either from their FreeBSD machine or using a CGI program on the FreeBSD web site. Anyone can view the current list of these reports (and details) on the web. * Becomming a committer (someone who can make changes to the source tree without needing to submit a patch) typically happens after you've submitted several good patches or shown a willingness to work on an area of the system that's been neglected. Much like Linux. * There's a core team of 12 (?) people who have overall architectural control of where FreeBSD is heading. Just like Linus has overall control of the Linux kernel. Myth: You can't make your own distributions or derivative works of FreeBSD. Reality: Yes you can. You just need to say in the documentation and source files where the code is derived from (see the BSD license for more details). For example, PicoBSD is a tailored distribition of FreeBSD that fits on a floppy. Great for turning a diskless 386 into a router or network print server. Or look at the Whistle Interjet (< URL:http://www.whistle.com/>) which uses FreeBSD as the underlying OS in their 'network appliance'. Whistle have contributed many of their enhancements back to the FreeBSD codebase. Myth: FreeBSD makes a great server, but a poor desktop machine. Reality: FreeBSD makes a great server. It also makes a great desktop. The requirements for a server (responsiveness under load, stability, effective use of system resources) are the same requirements for a desktop machine. Myth: The BSD codebase is old, outdated, and dieing. Reality: < fill this in: things like softupdates, the VM system, and so on> Myth: You can't do clustering (parallel computers) with FreeBSD. Reality: < fill this in> Myth: There's no commercial support for FreeBSD. Reality: < fill this in> Myth: Linux is better than FreeBSD. Reality: Mu. Myth: FreeBSD is better than Linux. Reality: Mu. -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
Return-Path: < owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG> Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA27228 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:11:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA27223 for < advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:11:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA16302; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:10:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Nik Clayton < nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk> cc: Jeremy Lea < reg@shale.csir.co.za>, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: On advocating FreeBSD and the Halloween memo... In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 04 Nov 1998 21:41:06 GMT." <19981104214106.45111@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 04 Nov 1998 15:10:40 -0800 Message-ID: <16298.910221040@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" < jkh@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I'm thinking of putting together a 'FreeBSD Myths' web page, either on my > own site or as part of the FreeBSD site, to dispell some of the myths Please do! This looks like a very good start and I think you should just convert what you have to SGML immediately and let others contribute to an active page rather than waiting for "completion" before releasing it. - Jordan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
Return-Path: < owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG> Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA04511 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:53:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA04503 for < advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 15:53:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id XAA25432; Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:51:48 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981104235147.52127@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:51:47 +0000 From: Nik Clayton < nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" < jkh@time.cdrom.com>, Nik Clayton < nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk> Cc: Jeremy Lea < reg@shale.csir.co.za>, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: On advocating FreeBSD and the Halloween memo... References: <19981104214106.45111@nothing-going-on.org> <16298.910221040@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <16298.910221040@time.cdrom.com>; from Jordan K. Hubbard on Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 03:10:40PM -0800 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 03:10:40PM -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > I'm thinking of putting together a 'FreeBSD Myths' web page, either on my > > own site or as part of the FreeBSD site, to dispell some of the myths > > Please do! This looks like a very good start and I think you should > just convert what you have to SGML immediately and let others > contribute to an active page rather than waiting for "completion" > before releasing it. With the Handbook conversion ongoing, I haven't got time to do this now. As I say, if anyone else wants to pick this up and run with it, feel free. Otherwise, I'll get to it sometime next week no doubt. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
Return-Path: < owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG> Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA24455 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:11:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk [193.237.89.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA24417 for < advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:10:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk) Received: (from nik@localhost) by nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA23774; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:04:31 GMT (envelope-from nik) Message-ID: <19981105200431.62325@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 20:04:31 +0000 From: Nik Clayton < nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk> To: Nik Clayton < nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk>, "Jordan K. Hubbard" < jkh@time.cdrom.com> Cc: Jeremy Lea < reg@shale.csir.co.za>, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: On advocating FreeBSD and the Halloween memo... References: <19981104214106.45111@nothing-going-on.org> <16298.910221040@time.cdrom.com> <19981104235147.52127@nothing-going-on.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 0.89.1i In-Reply-To: <19981104235147.52127@nothing-going-on.org>; from Nik Clayton on Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 11:51:47PM +0000 Organization: Nik at home, where there's nothing going on Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Nov 04, 1998 at 11:51:47PM +0000, Nik Clayton wrote: > With the Handbook conversion ongoing, I haven't got time to do this now. > As I say, if anyone else wants to pick this up and run with it, feel > free. Otherwise, I'll get to it sometime next week no doubt. Oh sod it, I didn't want a lunch hour today anyway :-) < URL:http://www.freebsd.org/~nik/myths.html> Comments appreciated. I've also got in touch with the NetBSD and OpenBSD advocacy groups -- the next revision of this document won't be FreeBSD specific. Oh, FWIW I've mailed Eric Raymond a copy of the first section and asked him whether or not he thinks I've mis-represnted his position. His reply will no doubt be interesting. . . If I don't get any complaints, I'll add the successor to this to the FreeBSD web site at some point over the weekend. My thanks to opsys@mail.webspan.net and grog@lemis.com, both of whom were quick to the mark with their own HTML versions. N -- C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
Return-Path: < owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG> Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA19014 for freebsd-advocacy-outgoing; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:29:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA19009 for < advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG>; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:29:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) Received: from time.cdrom.com (jkh@localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA26587; Thu, 5 Nov 1998 15:28:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jkh@time.cdrom.com) To: Nik Clayton < nik@nothing-going-on.demon.co.uk> cc: Jeremy Lea < reg@shale.csir.co.za>, advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: On advocating FreeBSD and the Halloween memo... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 05 Nov 1998 20:04:31 GMT." <19981105200431.62325@nothing-going-on.org> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 15:28:03 -0800 Message-ID: <26583.910308483@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" < jkh@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Oh sod it, I didn't want a lunch hour today anyway :-) > > < URL:http://www.freebsd.org/~nik/myths.html> Looking good! The graphic at the top is hosed, though I imagine you knew that. Also, ADRIAN Filipi-Martin < adrian@ubergeeks.com> posted some stuff about the true nature of the "splits" in BSD; you might want to suck that in. All in all, a very good start and something which needed to be said. I wonder if we want to also drag my posting out of the advocacy archives and attach it to this doc as a link under "our position on the hallowwen document" or something? Just a thought. Thanks for giving up your lunch hour, anyway. :) - Jordan > > Comments appreciated. I've also got in touch with the NetBSD and OpenBSD > advocacy groups -- the next revision of this document won't be FreeBSD > specific. Oh, FWIW I've mailed Eric Raymond a copy of the first section > and asked him whether or not he thinks I've mis-represnted his position. > His reply will no doubt be interesting. . . > > If I don't get any complaints, I'll add the successor to this to the > FreeBSD web site at some point over the weekend. > > My thanks to opsys@mail.webspan.net and grog@lemis.com, both of whom > were quick to the mark with their own HTML versions. > > N > -- > C.R.F. Consulting -- we're run to make me richer. . . To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message