Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Path: gmd.de!newsserver.jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!howland.reston.ans.net!
pipex!sunic!news.chalmers.se!dtek.chalmers.se!d0bpl
From: d0...@dtek.chalmers.se (Patrik Larsson)
Subject: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Message-ID: <d0bpl.763777041@dtek.chalmers.se>
Sender: n...@news.chalmers.se
Nntp-Posting-Host: hacke3.dtek.chalmers.se
Organization: Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg Sweden
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 1994 00:17:21 GMT
Lines: 17
A business associate of mine needs information about the
differences between the various Unixes for PCs (PS/2).
What are the pros and cons for SCO-unix in general, and
compared to AIX (and maybe Linux) in particular?
Any pointers to documents or specifications is great, and
personal opinions are very much appriciated!
This is a serious question, no flames please.
Thanks in advance!
// Patrik
Path: gmd.de!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!nigel.msen.com!emory!
news-feed-2.peachnet.edu!darwin.sura.net!ftp.health.org!ftp.health.org!
not-for-mail
From: nat...@ftp.health.org (Nathan Bardsley)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Date: 15 Mar 1994 22:04:23 -0000
Organization: Social & Health Services, Ltd.
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <2m5bd7$555@ftp.health.org>
References: <d0bpl.763777041@dtek.chalmers.se>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.health.org
In article <d0bpl.763777...@dtek.chalmers.se>,
Patrik Larsson <d0...@dtek.chalmers.se> wrote:
> What are the pros and cons for SCO-unix in general, and
>compared to AIX (and maybe Linux) in particular?
SCO is a nice system if all you're going to do is to run their
software. If you want to compile your own applications or develope
some inhouse networking apps, good luck. The SCO developement
package is, in a word, crippled.
--
Nathan Bardsley -- nat...@health.org
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Path: gmd.de!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!yale!zip.eecs.umich.edu!
newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!
sdd.hp.com!saimiri.primate.wisc.edu!dsinc!cdin-1!cdin-1.compu.com!tim
From: t...@cdin-1.compu.com (Tim Gallagher)
Subject: BRACE YOURSELF, was Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Organization: CompuData
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 1994 14:38:39 GMT
Message-ID: <TIM.94Mar17093839@cdin-1.compu.com>
In-Reply-To: vancleef@netcom.com's message of Wed, 16 Mar 1994 10:22:03 GMT
References: <d0bpl.763777041@dtek.chalmers.se> <2m5bd7$555@ftp.health.org>
<vancleefCMr64r.AAJ@netcom.com>
Sender: t...@cdin-1.compu.com (Tim Gallagher)
Lines: 53
Look out folks, this is flame material. You've been warned.
I love those folks who flock to the side of SCO any time their operating
system is challenged. I've been working with UNIX systems for years (SCO,
AT&T SVR4, SunOS, AIX, and more). I have never seen a company that takes
outdated products that were given to them, and had the balls to turn around
and resell them. After all, XENIX was originally a Microsoft/IBM product (I
never really learned exactly which). The product was essentially dumped to a
fledgeling Microsoft affiliate known as the Santa Cruz Operation. Their C
compiler comes from Microsoft, their propietary filesystem architecture comes
from Acer, their X window system comes from IXI, etc. In other words, THEY
DON'T WRITE A FUCKING THING!
What they are good at is fucking up perfectly working stand-alone packages,
and giving mediocre tech support. I have clients who, to this day, have used
XENIX 2.x with the XENIX Dev System, and have consisently gone through
upgrades through various levels of Xenix and then on up through Unix. They've
demonstrated bugs that are still present today. I personally have sent them
bug report after bug report. Going from company to company, I know if there's
anything I can rely upon from SCO, it's that their bugs remain consistent, and
that with each future release of the operating system, I can count on them to
release new ones. When you call them for tech support, what you usually get
is an "Oh-Why-are-you-bothering-me-don't-you-know-we're-Unix-Gods" attitude,
and you have to go through a ceremonial ritual with one brain-dead dweeb after
the next, requiring you to demonstrate that they know less about Unix than you
do, until you finally get an "engineer" who's "senior" enough to know what the
fuck you're talking about. Then you'll get a "Yup, you're right, that's a
bug!" followed by the omnipresent "We'll-fix-in-the-next-release" bullshit
answer, hoping that you'll go away and not bother them anymore.
Oh, and another thing (while I'm on my soapbox), why is that we're always a
major release behind? For instance, the current version of System V is
Release 4. How come we're *STILL* on version 3? The answer is licensing.
It's cheaper to be a version behind the current operating system. Then they
charge you competitive prices with SVR4, without giving you the same
functionality. And you thought Microsoft was ballsy!
If I had my druthers, I'd use AIX. IBM has come full circle and cleaned up
their act. They *finally* understand that open systems is where the market
is.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy Sean Gallagher t...@cdin-1.compu.com
Compudata Inc.
The fool, the mad fool that thinks my views are the same as my company's...
"I've got Premier Kissov on the line, and he's hopping mad!" - Dr. Strangelove
Save the Whales ... Collect the whole set!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: gmd.de!urmel.informatik.rwth-aachen.de!newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de!
ina.zfn.uni-bremen.de!marvin.pc-labor.uni-bremen.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!
news.belwue.de!zib-berlin.de!netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!
gatech!udel!faatcrl.faa.gov!not-for-mail
From: eba...@faatcrl.faa.gov (Ed Babin)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELF, was Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Date: 18 Mar 1994 15:27:57 -0500
Organization: FAA Technical Center, Pomona, NJ
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <2md2sdINN6bh@faatcrl.faa.gov>
References: <TIM.94Mar17093839@cdin-1.compu.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: faatcrl.faa.gov
X-Newsreader: Tin 1.1 PL4
: release new ones. When you call them for tech support, what you usually get
: is an "Oh-Why-are-you-bothering-me-don't-you-know-we're-Unix-Gods" attitude,
: and you have to go through a ceremonial ritual with one brain-dead dweeb after
: the next, requiring you to demonstrate that they know less about Unix than you
: do, until you finally get an "engineer" who's "senior" enough to know what the
: fuck you're talking about. Then you'll get a "Yup, you're right, that's a
Gee, consider yourself lucky. I can't even get past the receptionist because
I don't have a stinking service contract. You would think they would like
to be informed of their bugs. Why should I bother to buy anymore of their
products if they don't support their current ones?
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Path: gmd.de!xlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!
MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!wang!fitz
From: f...@wang.com (Tom Fitzgerald)
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 1994 02:31:16 GMT
Message-ID: <CMw4C5.1qo@wang.com>
References: <d0bpl.763777041@dtek.chalmers.se>
Sender: n...@wang.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: fnord.wang.com
Lines: 45
d0...@dtek.chalmers.se (Patrik Larsson) writes:
> A business associate of mine needs information about the
> differences between the various Unixes for PCs (PS/2).
> What are the pros and cons for SCO-unix in general, and
> compared to AIX (and maybe Linux) in particular?
As you've already noticed, this is 99% a religious argument.... You might
want to post more details about what the application is, and what prorities
your associate has.
SCO is:
- easiest to find commercial software for
- hardest to get public software ported to
- medium hard to develop for (but, once developed, easiest to use as a
source of software to port to other systems),
- very hard to make secure,
- not very reliable (up to ODT 2.0; I haven't heavily stressed an ODT 3.0
system, but the applications which I'm most concerned with have
unchanged version numbers between ODT 2.0 and ODT 3.0, so I'm not hopeful)
- expensive, but runs on almost any PC hardware in existence.
- easy for beginning admins to learn
- painful for admins of large sites to deal with; it does not scale well.
AIX is:
- very expensive
- easy to port public software to
- medium easy to develop for
- absolutely the most reliable hardware and software I've ever used
- not too hard to make secure
- very complicated; the "obvious" way to configure things has subtle and
unexpected side effects that you will regret later.
- not too bad for beginning admins to learn (adding users is easy; adding
disks is hard).
If you don't already know everything you need to know about Linux, then you
probably shouldn't be using it.
If you're looking for something somewhere between SCO, AIX and Linux, you
should check out BSDI since it gives you most of the best aspects of all
those systems.
--
Tom Fitzgerald Wang Labs Lowell MA, USA 1-508-967-5278 f...@wang.com
Pardon me, I'm lost, can you direct me to the information superhighway?
Path: gmd.de!xlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!
news.umbc.edu!haven.umd.edu!nova.umd.edu!nova!rockwell
From: rockw...@nova.umd.edu (Raul Deluth Miller)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Date: 19 Mar 1994 10:05:01 -0500
Organization: University of Maryland University College
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <ROCKWELL.94Mar19100500@nova.umd.edu>
References: <d0bpl.763777041@dtek.chalmers.se> <CMw4C5.1qo@wang.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: nova.umd.edu
In-reply-to: fitz@wang.com's message of Sat, 19 Mar 1994 02:31:16 GMT
Tom Fitzgerald:
. If you don't already know everything you need to know about Linux,
. then you probably shouldn't be using it.
That sounds like a cop out. It's ok that you don't know much about
Linux. But, it's silly to recommend others don't use it on that
basis.
Raul D. Miller
<rockw...@nova.umd.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Path: gmd.de!urmel.informatik.rwth-aachen.de!newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de!
ina.zfn.uni-bremen.de!marvin.pc-labor.uni-bremen.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!
news.belwue.de!News.Uni-Marburg.DE!news.th-darmstadt.de!zib-berlin.de!
netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!
sgiblab!sgigate.sgi.com!olivea!news.bu.edu!wang!fitz
From: f...@wang.com (Tom Fitzgerald)
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Organization: Wang Labs, Lowell MA, USA
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 02:15:52 GMT
Message-ID: <CMxyAH.KpK@wang.com>
References: <d0bpl.763777041@dtek.chalmers.se> <CMw4C5.1qo@wang.com>
<ROCKWELL.94Mar19100500@nova.umd.edu>
Sender: n...@wang.com
Nntp-Posting-Host: fnord.wang.com
Lines: 31
> Tom Fitzgerald:
> . If you don't already know everything you need to know about Linux,
> . then you probably shouldn't be using it.
rockw...@nova.umd.edu (Raul Deluth Miller) writes:
> That sounds like a cop out. It's ok that you don't know much about
> Linux. But, it's silly to recommend others don't use it on that
> basis.
My comment deserves more explanation..... the original poster was
comparing Linux to two commercial OSs (SCO and AIX), and vaguely implied
that the choice would which one to use in a business environment. Both SCO
and AIX have commercial support available. Regardless of the technical
flaws in IBM products, their support is outstanding - in a class of its own
compared to most of the computer industry. Linux is unsupported; you can
hope for help from the net, but you can't get anyone to commit to
supporting it. In a business environment support is critical. If
something dies and part of your operations grinds to a halt, that's a
really really bad time to have bring in a logic analyzer to work out a
subtle misinteraction between the disk and ethernet drivers.
That's why I said that he shouldn't consider Linux unless he was already
*very* familiar with it. I know everything I need to know about Linux
(not much, but enough), but the original poster should consider what he's
getting into.
--
Tom Fitzgerald Wang Labs Lowell MA, USA 1-508-967-5278 f...@wang.com
Pardon me, I'm lost, can you direct me to the information superhighway?
Path: gmd.de!xlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!yeshua.marcam.com!
insosf1.infonet.net!picard!sfuller
From: sful...@picard.infonet.net (Steve Fuller)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Date: 20 Mar 1994 06:55:36 GMT
Organization: INFOnet - Iowa Network Services, Inc.
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <2mgs18$hg7@insosf1.infonet.net>
References: <d0bpl.763777041@dtek.chalmers.se> <CMw4C5.1qo@wang.com>
<ROCKWELL.94Mar19100500@nova.umd.edu> <CMxyAH.KpK@wang.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: picard.infonet.net
f...@wang.com (Tom Fitzgerald) writes:
>My comment deserves more explanation..... the original poster was
>comparing Linux to two commercial OSs (SCO and AIX), and vaguely implied
>that the choice would which one to use in a business environment. Both SCO
>and AIX have commercial support available. Regardless of the technical
>flaws in IBM products, their support is outstanding - in a class of its own
>compared to most of the computer industry. Linux is unsupported; you can
>hope for help from the net, but you can't get anyone to commit to
>supporting it. In a business environment support is critical. If
>something dies and part of your operations grinds to a halt, that's a
>really really bad time to have bring in a logic analyzer to work out a
>subtle misinteraction between the disk and ethernet drivers.
I've used Linux for about 7 months now and have recently started dealing with
SCO at my job and on the side as well. I would have to agree with the poster
on his points. Linux is a fine OS and as a cheap way to get introduced to the
basics of system administration and UNIX itself, as well as UUCP, SLIP, etc.
However for commercial applications support I'd have to pick SCO as well.
Both of these pieces of software have their appropriate place and as long as
people are wise enough to chose what will best suit their purposes, everyone
should be happy.....
>That's why I said that he shouldn't consider Linux unless he was already
>*very* familiar with it. I know everything I need to know about Linux
>(not much, but enough), but the original poster should consider what he's
>getting into.
--
Steve Fuller I will choose the path that's clear
sful...@ins.infonet.net I will choose freewill -- N. Peart
INS User Development Group
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Path: gmd.de!newsserver.jvnc.net!nntpserver.pppl.gov!princeton!udel!
MathWorks.Com!news.kei.com!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!jabba.ess.harris.com!
news.ess.harris.com!p15jg.ess.harris.com
From: RLOKE...@IC1D.HARRIS.COM (ROBERT C. LOKERSON)
Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELF, was Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Li
Message-ID: <19940321093851.RLOKER01@p15jg.ess.harris.com>
Lines: 33
Sender: n...@news.ess.harris.com (News account)
Nntp-Posting-Host: p15jg.ess.harris.com
Organization: ESS.HARRIS.COM
X-Newsreader: FTPNuz (DOS) v1.0
References: <2md2sdINN6bh@faatcrl.faa.gov> <TIM.94Mar17093839@cdin-1.compu.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 1994 14:39:17 GMT
In Article <2md2sdINN...@faatcrl.faa.gov> "eba...@faatcrl.faa.gov (Ed Babin)" says:
> : release new ones. When you call them for tech support, what you usually get
> : is an "Oh-Why-are-you-bothering-me-don't-you-know-we're-Unix-Gods" attitude,
.......
>
> Gee, consider yourself lucky. I can't even get past the receptionist because
> I don't have a stinking service contract. You would think they would like
> to be informed of their bugs. Why should I bother to buy anymore of their
> products if they don't support their current ones?
>
.......
For sure... Microsoft arranged an evaluation copy of LANMANAGER 2.2.0 for SCO
and it (mostly) worked ok... Two small problems with our ultimate objectives
led me to find out the deal with SCO support. My company is a major VAR for
SCO products, but we dont have a support contract, so no one will talk to me
at SCO. The receptionist _DID_ give me the names of two consultant companies
which, she thought, might help me. If that is the way SCO support works, I
share all the above (emotions).
R.C. LOKERSON (BOB) MAIL ADDRESS: VOICE : 407.729.2257
HARRIS MDSO/MIS/DCC/ATG HARRIS E.S.S. SMTP : RLOKE...@IC1D.HARRIS.COM
BLDG 15/RM 838 P.O. BOX 37 CCMAIL: RLOKER01
PALM BAY, FLORIDA MELBOURNE FL FCC : WA3PKX
32902 HOME : 407.725.8024
I wrote it, not MR HARRIS.
"ANY CONCEPT NOT RELATED TO 'FONTS' WHICH CANNOT BE EXPRESSED IN 3 FONTS
... CANNOT BE EXPRESSED IN 3000 FONTS."
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Path: gmd.de!newsserver.jvnc.net!yale.edu!nigel.msen.com!emory!
europa.eng.gtefsd.com!howland.reston.ans.net!EU.net!uknet!cf-cm!cybaswan!iiitac
From: iii...@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: BRACE YOURSELF, was Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Li
Message-ID: <1994Mar22.164521.7909@uk.ac.swan.pyr>
Organization: Swansea University College
References: <2md2sdINN6bh@faatcrl.faa.gov> <TIM.94Mar17093839@cdin-1.compu.com>
<19940321093851.RLOKER01@p15jg.ess.harris.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 1994 16:45:21 GMT
Lines: 16
In article <19940321093851.RLOKE...@p15jg.ess.harris.com> RLOKE...@IC1D.HARRIS.COM
(ROBERT C. LOKERSON) writes:
>For sure... Microsoft arranged an evaluation copy of LANMANAGER 2.2.0 for SCO
>and it (mostly) worked ok... Two small problems with our ultimate objectives
>led me to find out the deal with SCO support. My company is a major VAR for
>SCO products, but we dont have a support contract, so no one will talk to me
>at SCO. The receptionist _DID_ give me the names of two consultant companies
>which, she thought, might help me. If that is the way SCO support works, I
>share all the above (emotions).
Don't see the problem there is a perfectly good free Lan manager server for
Linux, but not yet a client. It comes with little things like source code
and you don't have to play a fortune a year for suppor (although there
are people you can pay for support if you want).
Alan
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Path: gmd.de!urmel.informatik.rwth-aachen.de!newsserver.rrzn.uni-hannover.de!
ina.zfn.uni-bremen.de!marvin.pc-labor.uni-bremen.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!
news.belwue.de!News.Uni-Marburg.DE!news.th-darmstadt.de!zib-berlin.de!
netmbx.de!Germany.EU.net!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!news.moneng.mei.com!
hookup!news.sprintlink.net!jaring.my!hitech!terence
From: tere...@hitech.po.my (Terence Tan)
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Message-ID: <1994Mar23.081030.3184@hitech.po.my>
Organization: Hitechniaga
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 08:10:30 GMT
References: <d0bpl.763777041@dtek.chalmers.se> <CMw4C5.1qo@wang.com>
<ROCKWELL.94Mar19100500@nova.umd.edu> <CMxyAH.KpK@wang.com>
<2mgs18$hg7@insosf1.infonet.net>
X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2]
Followup-To: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
Lines: 34
Steve Fuller (sful...@picard.infonet.net) wrote:
: f...@wang.com (Tom Fitzgerald) writes:
: I've used Linux for about 7 months now and have recently started dealing with
: SCO at my job and on the side as well. I would have to agree with the poster
: on his points. Linux is a fine OS and as a cheap way to get introduced to the
: basics of system administration and UNIX itself, as well as UUCP, SLIP, etc.
: However for commercial applications support I'd have to pick SCO as well.
: Both of these pieces of software have their appropriate place and as long as
: people are wise enough to chose what will best suit their purposes, everyone
: should be happy.....
Linux is great as an EMAIL server or a gateway server to the internet...
Linux is stable but not as stable as I would like it be(which is a lot more
stable than SCO). SCO however is a COMMERCIAL unix and has a lot of
COMMERCIAL applications.. Until some firms decide to start using LINUX as
a possible commercial platform, SCO is a good bet..
: >That's why I said that he shouldn't consider Linux unless he was already
: >*very* familiar with it. I know everything I need to know about Linux
: >(not much, but enough), but the original poster should consider what he's
: >getting into.
: --
: Steve Fuller I will choose the path that's clear
: sful...@ins.infonet.net I will choose freewill -- N. Peart
: INS User Development Group
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A4000/040/Internet: tere...@hitech.po.my(Malaysia) Terence Tan
120megs / /*//_\ "Amigo Man"
6 megs / \*// \miga Mostly Harmless ..
Newsgroups: comp.unix.advocacy,biz.sco.general,comp.os.linux.misc
From: ja...@purplet.demon.co.uk (Mike Jagdis)
Path: gmd.de!xlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!pipex!uknet!demon!purplet!jaggy
Subject: Re: Opinions wanted about SCO-unix (vs AIX/Linux).
Organization: FidoNet node 2:252/305 - The Purple Tentacle, Reading
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 22:57:00 +0000
Message-ID: <542.2D9211B2@purplet.demon.co.uk>
Sender: use...@demon.co.uk
Lines: 11
* In message <1994Mar23.081030.3...@hitech.po.my>, Terence Tan said:
TT> SCO however is a COMMERCIAL unix and has a
TT> lot of COMMERCIAL applications.. Until some firms decide to start
TT> using LINUX as a possible commercial platform, SCO is a good bet..
All my COMMERCIAL applications for SCO run quite happily on my Linux box
too. What's your problem?
Mike