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From: gcra...@rain.org (gcracker)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Slackware Pro vs. Yggasdril CD-ROM's
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 1994 02:35:58 -0800
Organization: The organized Organization
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Is there anybody out there that has experience with Slackware Pro or
Yggasdril (or however you spell it) that would reccomend one over the
other?
Any recomendations on 15"+ monitors to use with linux/XFree86?
How about opinions on the ATI Xpression 64 PCI vid. card for use with Xfree?
Thanks, any comments welcome.
Have a good one,
gcra...@rain.org
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From: f...@ssc.com (Phil Hughes)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Slackware Pro vs. Yggasdril CD-ROM's
Date: 5 Dec 1994 07:14:09 -0800
Organization: Specialized Systems Consultants, Inc. (SSC)
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gcracker (gcra...@rain.org) wrote:
: Is there anybody out there that has experience with Slackware Pro or
: Yggasdril (or however you spell it) that would reccomend one over the
: other?
First the disclaimer: we sell Yggdrasil as well as Red Hat and two
different distributions with Slacware on them (InfoMagic and
TransAmeritech).
We started selling Yggdrasil first. It is a proprietary distribution (not
available on the Internet) with a nice install system and its own manual
(90 pages). It works and, as of the latest distribution, complies with
the Linux file system standard. It is relatively inexpensive ($34.95)
and comes with a boot disk.
Slackware is the most popular distribution. It has a decent install
system and works on most hardware. It is available over the Internet
for free. We have Slackware running on all the production systems here
at Linux Journal. The least expensive way to get Slackware on a CD
(that I know of) is off the InfoMagic CD. Slackware Professional is a
particular distribution from Morse. It is a package including the
distribution and a manual (Matt Welsh's _Linux Installation and
Getting Started_. It is "official" which means that you get
a picture of Pat Volkerding on the box. :-) I believe it sells for $65.
Red Hat Linux is another distribution that comes with Matt's book.
It also includes about 45 pages of its own installation material.
It has the nicest installation system. Currently sells for $39.95.
Trans-Ameritech is a complete archive of Linux plus a live Slackware
filesystem and BSD release. Comes with a mini-manual. $39.95.
InfoMagic is a 2-CD set for $20. It includes the contents of sunsite,
tsx-11 and the GNU archive sites plus a live Slackware file system.
The next release (in a couple of weeks with be 3 CDs plus a short manual)
and will sell for $25.
If you have more questions about distributions or Linux in general, we
have a Linux products catalog which includes 8 pages of comparision and
FAQs. It also covers all our Linux products including Linux Journal
magazine. We did it for our booth at Open Systems World and have about 1000
copies left. Send e-mail to li...@ssc.com and ask for one and we will
mail it to you. Or, if you are a Linux Journal subscriber the same
catalog will be bound in the January issue of the magazine which will
be mailed this week.
--
Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549, Seattle, WA 98155 (206)FOR-UNIX
>>> Publishers of pocket references for UNIX, C, ..., Linux Journal <<<
E-mail: f...@ssc.com Phone: (206)527-3385 Fax: (206)527-2806
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
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From: mjoh...@news.dorsai.org (Michael Johnston)
Subject: Re: Slackware Pro vs. Yggasdril CD-ROM's
Message-ID: <D0Eq8B.DJ4@dorsai.org>
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Phil Hughes (f...@ssc.com) wrote:
: Slackware is the most popular distribution. It has a decent install
: system and works on most hardware. It is available over the Internet
: for free. We have Slackware running on all the production systems here
: at Linux Journal. The least expensive way to get Slackware on a CD
: (that I know of) is off the InfoMagic CD. Slackware Professional is a
: particular distribution from Morse. It is a package including the
: distribution and a manual (Matt Welsh's _Linux Installation and
: Getting Started_. It is "official" which means that you get
: a picture of Pat Volkerding on the box. :-) I believe it sells for $65.
Not exactly. Pat is currently 'somewhere in Amsterdam' so I'll have speak
for him regarding the technical differences between Slackware Pro and the
FTP version.
Slackware Professional 2.1 differs in substantial ways from the FTP version
(of which a copy can ALSO be found on our CDROM) and requires a lot more
work to produce than to just 'burn' it onto a CDROM. Most current
versions of Slackware on CDROM take the approach of installing the
software to a drive and then place the /usr partition from that
installation onto a CD. This is a bad approach for many reasons, not the
least of which is that you can (and will) wind up with files which SHOULD
be modifiable but cannot. There's also no simple way of customizing what
gets run from the CD and what gets installed to the hard drive.
(This is not to be critical of anyone currently producing Slackware on CDROM,
but it bears mentioning in order to illustrate an important technical
difference. We like the folks over at InfoMagic and I would say
we have a healthy relationship with them. We both cater to different type
of Linux user. I think the fact that they carry our product as
well as their own should speak for itself.)
Slackware Pro 2.1 takes care of these problems. In order to do this all of
the packages have had to be modified to perform several levels of
symbolic links, depending upon the level of installation chosen. When
you're done with an installation of Slackware Professional, you can still
customize what gets put on your hard drive and what remains running from
CDROM.
Additionally, the package includes two extra CDs. One each for TSX-11 and
Sunsite, with the duplication between the two being removed. You can also
find ALL the GNU sources from prep.ai.mit.edu as well as an entire TCL
archive site.
The manual is no longer just The Installation and Getting Started Guide.
Also included are all the HOWTO's. Our goal was to provide the most oft
referenced Linux documentation in one reasonably compact package. Despite
our best efforts to trim it down some, the manual came in at nearly 600
pages and the overall package weight is 2 1/2 pounds.
Don't underestimate the value of support, either. All owners of Slackware
Professional get it. Our commitment to this area is growing as we hire
additional technicians to assist the growing userbase of Slackware.
Last but not least, we do contribute a substantial amount of funding to
the Slackware project as well as other free software development efforts,
and the list is expanding. By years end, I expect we will have
contributed nearly $25,000 in funding and equipment to free software
development organizations and individuals. I would expect this
number to grow over the next year as the popularity of our product and
acceptance of Linux in general increases. I would say we've demonstrated
a substantial commitment to the free software community this year. When
you purchase a copy of Slackware Professional Linux or The Linux
Quarterly you are helping to fund continued free software development.
In short, when you purchase a copy of Slackware Professional Linux 2.1,
you get a lot more than just 'a picture of Pat Volkerding.' I firmly
believe our product is the most comprehensive Linux package currently
available.
--
Michael R. Johnston
mjoh...@morse.net
http://www.morse.net
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
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From: b...@acc-corp.com (ACC Corp.)
Subject: Re: Slackware Pro vs. Yggasdril CD-ROM's
Message-ID: <bob.1137255203A@newsreader.jvnc.net>
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References: <gcracker-0112940235580001@port38.rain.org> <3bvao1$ku4@ssc.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Dec 1994 06:19:23 GMT
Lines: 35
In Article <3bvao1$k...@ssc.com>, f...@ssc.com (Phil Hughes) wrote:
>gcracker (gcra...@rain.org) wrote:
>: Is there anybody out there that has experience with Slackware Pro or
>: Yggasdril (or however you spell it) that would reccomend one over the
>: other?
>
>First the disclaimer: we sell Yggdrasil as well as Red Hat and two
>different distributions with Slacware on them (InfoMagic and
>TransAmeritech).
>
>Slackware Professional is a It is "official" which means that you get
>a picture of Pat Volkerding on the box. :-) I believe it sells for $65.
>If you have more questions about distributions or Linux in general, we
>have a Linux products catalog
>--
>Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. Publishers of ... Linux Journal <<<
Golly Phil, you seem to have gotten off the topic. The question was
"Slackware Pro versus Yggdrasil". Slackware Pro offers a great deal more
than just Pat Volkerding's picture to recommend it, and perhaps you would
like to add it to your Linux offerings? You can learn a great deal more
about it by sending email to us at: in...@acc-corp.com
with the subject: send Slackware-Pro
Also, it is educational and informative to learn about all the Linux CD's
Linux Journal offers and your Linux CD catalog that will appear in Linux
Journal next month, but how do your advertisers react to LJ getting into the
Linux reselling business? ;-)
Cheers, Bob.
ACC Bookstores
"Home of the PC UNIX - Linux Catalog"
1 (800) 546-7274
in...@acc-corp.com
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From: jo...@InfoMagic.com (Joel Goldberger)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Slackware Pro vs. Yggasdril CD-ROM's
Date: 8 Dec 1994 07:54:13 GMT
Organization: CRL Dialup Internet Access
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Michael Johnston (mjoh...@news.dorsai.org) wrote:
: Phil Hughes (f...@ssc.com) wrote:
: : Slackware is the most popular distribution. It has a decent install
: : system and works on most hardware. It is available over the Internet
: : for free. We have Slackware running on all the production systems here
: : at Linux Journal. The least expensive way to get Slackware on a CD
: : (that I know of) is off the InfoMagic CD. Slackware Professional is a
: : particular distribution from Morse. It is a package including the
: : distribution and a manual (Matt Welsh's _Linux Installation and
: : Getting Started_. It is "official" which means that you get
: : a picture of Pat Volkerding on the box. :-) I believe it sells for $65.
: Not exactly. Pat is currently 'somewhere in Amsterdam' so I'll have speak
: for him regarding the technical differences between Slackware Pro and the
: FTP version.
: Slackware Professional 2.1 differs in substantial ways from the FTP version
: (of which a copy can ALSO be found on our CDROM) and requires a lot more
: work to produce than to just 'burn' it onto a CDROM. Most current
: versions of Slackware on CDROM take the approach of installing the
: software to a drive and then place the /usr partition from that
: installation onto a CD. This is a bad approach for many reasons, not the
: least of which is that you can (and will) wind up with files which SHOULD
: be modifiable but cannot. There's also no simple way of customizing what
: gets run from the CD and what gets installed to the hard drive.
: (This is not to be critical of anyone currently producing Slackware on CDROM,
: but it bears mentioning in order to illustrate an important technical
: difference. We like the folks over at InfoMagic and I would say
: we have a healthy relationship with them. We both cater to different type
: of Linux user. I think the fact that they carry our product as
: well as their own should speak for itself.)
I hesitate to turn this into an InfoMagic vs. Slackware Pro discussion, since
as Bob Young pointed out that is not really the topic of the original thread,
but bear with me briefly while I respond to some of Michael Johnston's
comments :-).
I won't try to address the wisdom of CD-ROM dependant installations as that
has been beaten to death on these lists quite enough. There are those that
like it and those that don't. To accomodate those that do, we (InfoMagic)
provide a "live file-system" which does raise the issue of local configuration
that Michael addresses. For this reason we suggest using the live file system
to selectively replace files following a normal hard disk install. You'll
end up with essentially the same configuration as Slackware Pro gives you
out of the box, but you won't have the box if you bought our product :-).
As to support. Starting with our first release we have offerred unlimited
technical support. Among the folks currently handling tech support are
several early Linux activists and several more recent converts. It has
always been our stated policy that "If we don't know the answer, we'll find
it for you." We've gotten more than a few calls from folks who bought our
CD's just to get support for their other distributions. While not exactly
what we had in mind, we give them the same level of support as everyone
else.
As to contributions to the efforts of free software, InfoMagic has and
continues to contribute a percentage of all free software related sales
to the usual suspects: FSF, Linux Documentation Project, Linux Grant Fund,
and the XFree86 Group. While the dollar amount of our contributions is
significantly larger than those Michael reported, this should not be relevant.
As Michael pointed out, InfoMagic does carry Slackware Professional, since
some of our customers are more comfortable with printed manuals than online
versions. For this reason we have added hardcopy of the Installation HowTo
to our upcoming December release.
--
Joel Goldberger Tel: (602) 526-9565
InfoMagic, Inc. Fax: (602) 526-9573
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
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From: m...@cs.cornell.edu (Matt Welsh)
Subject: Re: Slackware Pro vs. Yggasdril CD-ROM's
Message-ID: <1994Dec12.173903.3587@cs.cornell.edu>
Organization: Cornell CS Robotics and Vision Laboratory, Ithaca, NY 14850
References: <3bvao1$ku4@ssc.com> <D0Eq8B.DJ4@dorsai.org> <3c6e35$pan@nntp.crl.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Dec 1994 17:39:03 GMT
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At last, the major Linux distributors battle it out on USENET. :)
Joel at InfoMagic writes:
>
>I won't try to address the wisdom of CD-ROM dependant installations as that
>has been beaten to death on these lists quite enough. There are those that
>like it and those that don't. To accomodate those that do, we (InfoMagic)
>provide a "live file-system" which does raise the issue of local configuration
>that Michael addresses.
I talked to Patrick about this in Amsterdam. I happen to like
InfoMagic's complete live filesystem---in fact, that CD-ROM is
always mounted on my system. It serves my man pages and my
ispell dictionary---which I did with simple symlinks (and setting
MANPATH), by hand.
That live filesystem also acts as a complete system back. While I don't
run Slackware, if I ever delete a file or need the newest version of
a single binary it's a lot easier to copy it directly from the live fs
than it is to locate in a tarfile somewhere.
The Slackware live fs also gives me a complete picture of what an
"out-of-the-box" Slackware system looks like, which is very useful
for writing docs and answering email. The one on Slackware Pro currently
only includes /usr.
Let's not get into a mudfight over this, folks. Remember that Linux
is free in order for us to provide the software in different ways to
different people. Some people need the kind of thing that InfoMagic
provides (as a developer, I need that); others need an "auto-install"
system as found on Morse or Yggdrasil. I'd say that most of the major
CD-ROMs that I've seen are rather good, they all serve a portion of
the market, and they get the job done. I don't think it's possible to say
that any is the "absolute best" or "most comprehensive"; it depends
on who you ask.
By the way, I'd like to suggest that CD-ROM vendors provide the HOWTOs
in a 3-hole format in a binder. The binder could have some nice
design on it to make it look like a real technical manual. You could
then allow people to "subscribe" to the HOWTOs in which case they
can replace just those parts that have changed in the binder,
recycling the old ones. Keeping the same binder of course. SSC provides
something like this---you folks should try to market that more widely.
I understand that the Linux Bible is more cost-effective to print,
but the HOWTOs are more volatile and I think it's a better service to
customers to provide them in a medium which can be easily swapped out.
This also makes it less likely that the HOWTOs that people are
reading will be out of dsate (which is a constant problem faced by
the HOWTO authors).
Just a humble suggestion from a lowly doco.
mdw
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From: f...@ssc.com (Phil Hughes)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Slackware Pro vs. Yggasdril CD-ROM's
Date: 13 Dec 1994 11:44:06 -0800
Organization: Specialized Systems Consultants, Inc. (SSC)
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Message-ID: <3ckti6$1tp@ssc.com>
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ACC Corp. (b...@acc-corp.com) wrote:
: In Article <3bvao1$k...@ssc.com>, f...@ssc.com (Phil Hughes) wrote:
: >First the disclaimer: we sell Yggdrasil as well as Red Hat and two
: >different distributions with Slacware on them (InfoMagic and
: >TransAmeritech).
: >
: >Slackware Professional is a It is "official" which means that you get
: >a picture of Pat Volkerding on the box. :-) I believe it sells for $65.
: >If you have more questions about distributions or Linux in general, we
: >have a Linux products catalog
: Golly Phil, you seem to have gotten off the topic. The question was
: "Slackware Pro versus Yggdrasil". Slackware Pro offers a great deal more
: than just Pat Volkerding's picture to recommend it, and perhaps you would
: like to add it to your Linux offerings?
Actually, we considered it and decided not to.
: Also, it is educational and informative to learn about all the Linux CD's
: Linux Journal offers and your Linux CD catalog that will appear in Linux
: Journal next month, but how do your advertisers react to LJ getting into the
: Linux reselling business? ;-)
As you know (but many others may not) Linux Journal is published by
SSC. SSC has been in the business of selling Linux CDs since before
Linux Journal existed and continues to sell Linux CDs as well as the
books that SSC publishes and other books we consider worth making
available to our regular customers and Linux Journal readers. The catalog
that is included in the January issue was specifically published
for the Open Systems World show. We decided to include it in the
magazine because it offers a lot of information about Linux (about 8
pages of Linux-specific non-advertising) as well as offering various
Linux products.
As for advertiser reaction, I haven't conducted a poll but I expect
that most advertisers like the fact that SSC is promoting Linux in
general and some specific products. The added exposure sure can't hurt.
If an advertiser is interested in us offering their products for
sale through SSC's catalog, they should contact Belinda Frazier
(b...@ssc.com). SSC's catalog goes to a lot more people than just
Linux Journal subscribers.
Linux Journal's goal is to promote Linux. With the growth of Linux comes
a bigger market for all the advertisers, more support in terms of
available hardware and software and lower prices on real computer systems
for everyone. As long as we remember that goal we will all benefit
(except possibly SCO :-) ).
--
Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549, Seattle, WA 98155 (206)FOR-UNIX
>>> Publishers of pocket references for UNIX, C, ..., Linux Journal <<<
E-mail: f...@ssc.com Phone: (206)527-3385 Fax: (206)527-2806